Simon Zinger is happy to fight the licensed industry’s corner. He is vehemently opposed to the continued expansion of the black market, while consistently championing Entain’s efforts on consumer protection and support. His remit expanded last year as he added the chief customer care remit to his general counsel position, with that expanded oversight allowing for a deeper understanding of the FTSE 100 business. It is a position from which he understands the need for the legal market to step up the fight.
He argues that the action of the unlicensed sector impinges on the legal arena’s social licence to operate. Without action, the tarring with the same brush could see gambling further pushed to the fringes. “That’s my fear – that it’s all getting away from us unless we do something,” he states.
Here, Zinger explains how the industry can work more collaboratively and how the biggest threat to consumers must be quashed sooner rather than later.
EGR: Is the black market the single biggest threat to the gambling industry right now?
Simon Zinger (SZ): Absolutely. We’ve seen different types of research. We’ve seen the Gambling Commission with its own research. I think we’ve had lots of debates over the years over who’s right and who’s wrong with the research. I think it’s time to accept a certain level of research that we all agree with and actually now start taking action against the black market because it is probably the biggest threat to the industry. It is the biggest threat to regulators who have to oversee the industry because they lose control over being able to regulate, and obviously the single biggest threat to consumers who engage with products. It’s not just harm to us as operators; it’s harm to the wider stakeholders in the wider supply chain.
EGR: How did it get to this point? Is it a failing of government? Of regulators?
SZ: It’s a good question. I think we’ve gone through a phase of regulation and licensing that created a regulated industry that takes things very seriously and sees having a licence as a privilege. I think you’ll always get people who want to cut corners, especially when there’s lots of money at stake.
I think lawmakers and politicians maybe have, for too long, looked at all of us in a negative light. And I think because of seeing us in the negative light, they haven’t been addressing some of the things that created this black market and, up until now, haven’t actually taken the necessary steps to go even further in stopping it.
I see our relationship with regulators as a partnership. We’re in this collectively, and what we need to do together is impress on our politicians that they need to help us in the right kind of way.
EGR: On being lumped together with the black market in that negative light, what can the licensed sector do to change the narrative?
SZ: There are a few things but going above and beyond with customer care is key. We have over 36,000 interactions globally every day. Consumers have a right to protection. I think we also need to continue marketing so people recognise Coral and Ladbrokes as trusted companies they can continue gambling with. Beyond those two levers we can control, we then need to look to the Gambling Commission, to law enforcement and to legislators for further support.
EGR: Do you foresee a cutting of red tape and deregulation for the licensed industry as a response?
SZ: We’re not asking for massive deregulation. We’re happy with the conditions we accept. What we’re asking for is to get the black market operators out of the equation and the people who facilitate them doing what they’re able to do [to stop them]. That means social media companies and certain media organisations. Most of all, I think it’s the enforcement thing. We’re happy with what we have to do as licensed operators, but you need to now get unlicensed operators out of the equation.
EGR: When we talk about government helping, putting UK taxes up will have the opposite effect.
SZ: I agree. You get the sense that economic harm to the industry is not something the government cares about. I think we maybe need to pivot collectively. We haven’t talked enough about the harm to players, the harm to consumers, and that’s something we’re going to be doing more of as a team at Entain. If the government isn’t concerned about our economic wellbeing, let’s talk about the harm. Hopefully they understanding how much harm is created by the black market and how important it is to enforce against it.
EGR: In a worst-case scenario, once the remote gaming duty and betting duty hikes come in the UK, what will the black market look like?
SZ: I think it looks much worse. I think it will then get worse with the introduction of things like crypto and more novel technologies that these companies can hide behind; when you have low enforcement levels. That’s my fear – that it’s all getting away from us unless we do something.
EGR: With no silver bullet, how does the industry go about the task at hand?
SZ: This is a collective action we now have to start taking. Operators, suppliers and regulators. We have to come up with new ideas. Why aren’t we getting the financial services industry involved? Why aren’t we looking at how payments are processed? Why aren’t we looking at credit card companies? There’s really nothing happening with the payments system.
We also need to be going at social media a lot more than we have. How could regulators maybe get lawmakers and politicians interested in doing something that might create really positive impact?
EGR: What are your thoughts on those calling for further reforms such as blanket ad bans in the UK?
SZ: It’s like the alcohol abolitionists. You would think, objectively, they would see the fact that we contribute to the economy, pay taxes, contribute to grassroots sports, employ lots of people. You think they’d see that.
EGR: The government is handing the Gambling Commission £26m to support the fight against the black market. What are your thoughts on this?
SZ: It’s great that finally we have this level of public recognition that the funding is required. I think that’s probably energised the Gambling Commission. It’s great they’ve got the funding. We’re here to work with them. We’re here to give them support. And it’s great that we do have a good relationship with them.
EGR: How has the relationship between the regulator and the industry shifted to be more positive?
SZ: It took a lot of effort, collaboration, transparency and being keen to share information. It’s a lot of work on one-to-one personal relationships to create trust. It’s great we have that. We’ve got to a place we maybe didn’t have six or seven years ago.
EGR: The Gambling Commission is still fining companies and reaching regulatory settlements. Does this mean there’s still some way to go?
SZ: With a very comprehensive regulatory framework, there will always be a reason to enforce against someone. I think the most important thing is, as licensed operators, we are putting in place something that is miles beyond what the black market operators do. So, there’s always going to be tension or a mistake that occurs somewhere, or people who fall through the cracks in terms of interactions given how comprehensive and maybe even difficult some of the regulatory and licensing requirements are. That’s how it is.
EGR: How are you settling into your new job as chief customer care officer?
SZ: It’s great. I’ve been across the legal and compliance world for a while now. It’s been incredibly energising to have a closer relationship with all of the customer care professionals inside Entain. Part of my work has been bringing a lot of the elements of compliance and AML together with customer care in a way that never happened before. The collaboration now between the two teams is strong, and I think there are benefits into how we look at players, into how we offer products, how the customer journeys work. It’s nice to have that collaboration under one roof.
EGR: How is Entain putting AI in its customer care processes? Could there a world in which the tech does it all?
SZ: It helps with frontend queries, and we can use chatbots that help the customer because they give a faster answer in terms of efficiency and routing to part of the organisation it can help. It is very far from being anywhere near the true interactions we have around safer gambling because for that you need to speak to real people about real issues, sometimes very difficult issues. AI is going to be kept away from that.
[Only using AI] will be the end of a company, certainly in relation to its regulatory obligations. There’s no way that that could happen. As a customer, I don’t know if you would trust that, or if you’d appreciate it. I think we need to be cautious and use it in the right place. I think there’s a human element that just can’t be replaced.
EGR: Do you envision an industry where grey markets cease to exist? Markets are either white or black?
SZ: It would be wonderful if it was that simple. I think the problem with grey is that we continue to see emerging licensing authorities. Now you have Anjouan. Someone with an Anjouan licence offering a product in Latam or certain provinces in Canada isn’t going to go away. The problem is, as we have seen in Europe, there is no harmonisation around regulation.
The post Entain chief customer care officer: black market the single biggest threat to consumers first appeared on EGR Intel.
Simon Zinger sits down with EGR to discuss how the black market can be nullified and how the relationship between regulator and licensees has shifted in recent years
The post Entain chief customer care officer: black market the single biggest threat to consumers first appeared on EGR Intel.